053 | Fire & Song053 | Fire & Song
Sex, God, & Chaos
In this episode, Roane Hunter and Ben Derrick discuss Carl Lehenbauer's book "Fire and Song," which explores the Song of Solomon's deeper meanings and its relevance to modern marriages. Carl shares his journey of teaching the Song of Solomon, which led him to write a novel that integrates its themes into practical advice for marital intimacy. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the Hebrew poetry and the book's role in addressing societal issues around marriage and sexuality. The conversation highlights the need for grace, deep emotional connection, and physical intimacy in marriages, supported by a strong relationship with God.
54:11•3 Mar 2025
Fire & Song: Bringing the Song of Songs into Real Marriages
Episode Overview
- A deep, sustainable marriage grows from living out of God’s love first, then bringing that love into the relationship.
- The Song of Songs offers a rich picture of emotional safety, respect and physical intimacy that often gets lost in translation.
- Men and women typically approach conflict from different needs; sacrificial love means learning to meet your spouse’s primary need, not just your own.
- True intimacy requires grace-filled honesty, where spouses can be “naked and unashamed” emotionally and physically.
- Honest accountability and confession are crucial tools for those battling pornography or sexual sin, even for pastors and leaders.
“God designed marriage to fail if we try to do it without him at the centre.”
Curious about how others manage their sobriety journey while rebuilding intimacy and faith? This conversation brings together hosts Ben Derrick and Roane Hunter with pastor and author Carl Lehenbauer to talk about his book *Fire and Song* and the often-ignored power of the Song of Songs for modern marriages.
Carl explains how a simple Bible study challenge pushed him into the Song of Songs, only to find that most resources on it were, in his words, “not good.” Digging into the Hebrew poetry opened up rich meaning for him and his wife, reshaping their marriage and providing new language for the couples he counsels.
One example he shares is the line often translated as “our couch is green”; when you look at the original wording, he says, it really points to “our marriage bed… full of life,” which suddenly makes the passage deeply relational and practical. The episode leans into the connection between emotional and physical intimacy, especially for couples facing sexual brokenness, addiction, or betrayal.
Carl notes that “God designed marriage to fail if we try to do it without him at the centre,” stressing that a strong relationship with Jesus is the “bass drum” that keeps a marriage’s rhythm steady. From there, he unpacks how men and women often try to solve conflict in opposite ways, and how sacrificial love means learning to meet the other person’s deepest needs rather than your own.
You’ll also hear Carl openly admit his own battle with pornography and how regular, honest accountability has helped him move from a Pharisee-style self-righteousness to a more honest dependence on grace. The tone stays real, often funny, but always anchored in hope that even in a culture confused about sex, a marriage marked by grace, safety and passion is still possible.
If you long for a marriage that’s more than just “we get along,” what might change if you let God’s love song shape your own story?
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