EP.9 OPEN ACCESS, OPEN MIC WITH PHYLLIS KAUFMANEP.9 OPEN ACCESS, OPEN MIC WITH PHYLLIS KAUFMAN
Open Access, Open Mic
Phyllis Kaufman joins Lynn Madden and Claire to talk about compassionate, low-barrier care for pregnant and parenting women who use drugs. The conversation focuses on stigma, policy, harm reduction and co-located treatment models that prioritise keeping mothers and children together.
49:02•10 Jun 2026
Keeping Mothers and Babies Together: Low-Barrier Care with Phyllis Kaufman
Episode Overview
- Pregnant and parenting women who use drugs face overlapping legal, social, economic and healthcare barriers, including criminalisation and family separation.
- Co-located, multidisciplinary programmes like the RISE Centre aim to prevent fractured care by providing medical, behavioural and addiction services for mother and child in one safe space.
- Medication for opioid use disorder, such as methadone and buprenorphine, is described as the gold standard, yet is increasingly stigmatised and sometimes required to be stopped for family reunification.
- Relapse is framed as a normal feature of chronic conditions, and advance relapse planning and non-punitive responses are presented as crucial to keeping families together.
- Low-barrier, walk-in models like the APT Foundation’s approach focus on rapid access to evidence-based care and practical supports, with the guiding principle: first and foremost, don’t die.
“"If you have a drug use disorder, then by definition, you have a chronic illness and you need all of the support that goes into managing any kind of chronic illness."”
Experience the emotional and inspiring tales of recovery as this episode turns the spotlight on pregnant and parenting women who use drugs, and what genuine care can look like when systems stop punishing them and start listening. The conversation centres on guest Phyllis Kaufman, JD, whose career runs from law to public health, social impact theatre, and, most recently, planning the RISE Centre, a multidisciplinary clinical programme for pregnant and postpartum women and their children impacted by substance use disorder.
Phyllis explains how RISE was designed as a "multidisciplinary, fully integrated specialty clinical care model" where adult and child medicine, women's health, behavioural health, and addiction medicine all sit in one safe, co-located space. The aim is simple but radical: avoid fractured care so women are more likely to stay in treatment.
The chat digs into the huge barriers facing women who use drugs in pregnancy: criminalisation, child removal, stigma, trauma, poverty, lack of transport and childcare, and deeply ingrained mistrust of healthcare. Phyllis points out that women have been "surveilled, criminalised, separated from their families for decades", while APT Foundation CEO Dr Lynn Madden adds that "the crime of having an illness is at the heart" of much of the stigma.
You'll hear how current policy shifts, including restrictions on harm reduction and mixed messages about methadone and buprenorphine, make it even harder for women to seek help. Both Phyllis and Lynn argue that drug use disorders should be treated like any other chronic condition: prioritise access, act fast, and keep people alive. As Lynn puts it, first and foremost: "Don't die.
Then we can talk a bit about getting your life on track." Between low-barrier models like APT's walk-in approach and RISE-style co-located care, the episode leaves you asking: what would it take for every mother and baby to be met with compassion instead of punishment?
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