160: New Life Perspectives with Liz Larson and Bill McKenna - Episode 160160: New Life Perspectives with Liz Larson and Bill McKenna - Episode 160
UK Health Radio Podcast
Liz Larson and Bill McKenna talk about apathy as a nervous system shutdown rather than a simple mindset issue, linking it to shame, guilt and depression-like symptoms. They describe how brief daily practices, including Cogno Movement, may help reset the nervous system and restore energy and motivation.
46:42•11 May 2026
The Apathy Trap: Why You Feel Numb and How Your Nervous System Holds the Key
Episode Overview
- Apathy is described as a numb, drained state that often follows deep shame and guilt, sitting as the third level on David Hawkins’ map of awareness.
- This state can look like laziness or a bad mood but is actually a nervous system shutdown that leads to withdrawal, neglecting responsibilities and loss of interest.
- Liz and Bill argue that mindset tools like positive thinking, gratitude lists or ‘just be disciplined’ often backfire because apathy is a physical state, not a thought problem.
- Cogno Movement is presented as a way to reset the nervous system through eye movements, body awareness and brief daily sessions, often starting with just a few minutes.
- Regular ‘nervous system hygiene’ can free up energy, ease pain and inflammation, and make space for genuine motivation, ideas and hope to return.
“Apathy is not a mindset problem. It’s a nervous system state.”
What can we learn from those who have battled addiction? Here, the focus is on a quieter but very familiar enemy: apathy – that “lumpy day” feeling where everything seems pointless and heavy, yet you’re not quite sad or angry enough to do anything about it. Host Liz Larson breaks down apathy using David Hawkins’ map of awareness, describing it as the third level above shame and guilt.
She explains how shame (“there’s something wrong with me”) and guilt (“I did something wrong and I can’t forgive myself”) drain so much energy that the nervous system eventually slips into shutdown. On the outside it may look like a bad mood, procrastination or “just being tired”; on the inside, it feels like life force is dimming.
You’ll hear how this shutdown can show up as brain fog, low-grade all-over pain, inflammation, and classic “I don’t care” behaviours: not paying bills, letting hygiene slide, withdrawing from relationships, and feeling irritated by well-meant advice like “just be positive” or “be grateful”.
As Liz puts it, “apathy is not a mindset problem – it’s a nervous system state.” Together with co-host Bill McKenna, she talks about Cogno Movement, a method they use to reset the nervous system through eye movements, body sensations and simple daily practices. A short story about Liz’s daughter Leah shows how a 10–15 minute session shifted her from feeling stuck and hopeless about her workload to suddenly seeing clear, practical solutions.
Rather than pushing more mindset tools, the episode argues for “nervous system hygiene” – quick, physical ways to re-balance the brain so that motivation, ideas and genuine gratitude can return naturally. If apathy, depression or chronic low energy feel uncomfortably familiar, this conversation might help you ask a gentler question: what if nothing is wrong with your willpower, and your nervous system just needs a reset?
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