Dependency and Denial - with Joe PawsonDependency and Denial - with Joe Pawson
Eggshell Transformations with Imi Lo
Psychotherapist Joseph Pawson talks with Imi Lo about how denial of our need for others develops, and how symptoms can reveal hidden vulnerability. The conversation focuses on sensitive, self-reliant people who struggle to depend on anyone and offers a gentle sense of hope that deeper, dependable relationships might still be possible.
30:25•29 Mar 2026
Dependency, Denial and the Risk of Really Needing Someone
Episode Overview
- Dependency is framed as a universal human need and the basis of relationship, rather than pathological clinginess.
- Denial is linked to the stories and "maps" we create to survive painful experiences, especially when others were not there for us.
- Symptoms like anxiety, jealousy and anger can point towards vulnerable parts of the self that have been shut away.
- Therapeutic change comes less from calling out denial and more from gently seeing and reflecting a person’s underlying hurt.
- There is value in holding onto the hope that someone might one day meet your needs with depth and tenderness, even if that feels hard to imagine now.
“"It's not actually the part of myself that was the problem. It was my rejection of that part of myself that was the problem."”
What can we learn from those who have battled addiction to self-sufficiency and emotional isolation? This conversation between psychotherapist Joseph Pawson and host Imi Lo looks at how denial of our need for others can quietly shape a lifetime.
Joe traces his unusual path from London to shamanic work in Peru, herbal medicine, and eventually psychotherapy, linking it all to a growing trust in "the intelligence present in what lies outside the confines of what we think of ourselves." From there, the pair get into the heart of his forthcoming book, *Dependency and Denial*, and what the word "dependency" really means.
Instead of framing dependency as clinginess or addiction, Joe speaks about it as a universal human condition and the basis of our relationships. He explains how early experiences of not being met by caregivers can push people into rigid self-sufficiency, where it feels safer to say "I'm fine" than to risk relying on anyone.
As he puts it, denial "works hand in hand with the way in which we construct the maps and templates" that help us make sense of the world but can become painfully limiting. Highly sensitive, self-aware people will recognise themselves in the patterns Imi describes: doing endless inner work, holding space for everyone else, yet finding it unbearable to actually need someone.
Joe gently unpacks how symptoms like anxiety, jealousy or anger might be the very signals pointing to the "vulnerabilities we've left behind," and why the real problem is often our rejection of those vulnerable parts rather than the needs themselves. The tone stays warm, careful and non-judgemental throughout, especially around the word "denial" itself, which Joe treats less as a flaw and more as a understandable way of surviving.
By the end, he offers a simple wish for anyone who keeps their needs tightly controlled: to hold onto "the hope that there could be another who is there for them" with the depth and tenderness they’ve longed for. If you’ve ever been told you’re "too much" yet secretly feel you’re not allowed to need anything at all, this conversation might be the nudge to question that old story.
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