Refuge with Mike TravisanoRefuge with Mike Travisano
Kind Mind
a Kind Mind dialogue with Mike Travisano and Todd Fink
1:00:58•1 Aug 2026
Finding Refuge in Small Things with Buddhist Teacher Mike Travisano
Episode Overview
- Mindfulness can create space between physical pain and the mental story, reducing emotional suffering even when circumstances don’t change.
- Experiences of grief and loss may reveal a felt sense of connection and oneness that challenges the idea of a separate self.
- The Four Noble Truths and Eightfold Path are presented as practical tools for everyday stress rather than abstract philosophy.
- Anxiety often grows from trying to control what cannot be controlled and from chasing a "perfect" version of oneself.
- Shifting goals from perfection to connection can soften performance anxiety and deepen relationships in music, work and daily life.
“"The gap between the person I think I should be to be okay and the person who I’m damn sure that I am is suffering."”
This episode dives deep into the challenges and triumphs of living with anxiety, control, and constant pressure, using Buddhist practice as a down‑to‑earth guide. Host Michael Todd Fink sits down with ordained Buddhist teacher and long‑time meditator Mike Travisano, whose book *Refuge in Small Things* blends Buddhist lessons, poetry and quirky "zen doodles" with stories from his own life. Listeners are taken back to Mike’s teenage years, when a kung fu injury became his first real test of meditation.
Lying on the dojo floor, he realised he could "separate the experience of the injury from the story" he was telling himself. That moment sold him on meditation as something practical rather than mystical.
The conversation turns especially moving when Mike recalls being at his father’s bedside as he died, describing an intense clarity: "All of a sudden this very strange thing happened… the ‘just like I do’ went away… oh my gosh, he’s me… it’s all one." This experience eventually led him into Buddhist seminary and ordination.
From there, Mike and Michael unpack key Buddhist ideas in very plain language – the difference between pain and suffering, the gap between "perfect me" and "real me", and how the craving to close that gap feeds anxiety. They break down the Eightfold Path as a practical framework, stressing mindfulness as "the tool" that helps people notice what’s happening and then "choose something else" rather than react on autopilot.
Performance anxiety, whether in music, work or relationships, gets a lot of airtime. Mike jokes about spending years obsessing over "the one person who didn’t clap", and shares how shifting the goal from perfection to connection changes everything: "You don’t really have to perform for them. All you have to do is touch them." The episode closes with a gentle guided practice on breath, body and sound, giving anyone dealing with stress, grief or self‑criticism a simple way to reset.
Could a few minutes of honest awareness be the refuge you’ve been missing?
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