S3 Ep189: Emma Cleal: Be More FrankS3 Ep189: Emma Cleal: Be More Frank
Over The Influence: The Alcohol Free Podcast
Emma Cleal shares how the death of her son Frank led her to question her drinking, reject ‘wine as comfort’ and build a calmer, sober life. Hosts Sharon and Ben gently unpack grief, self-respect and the everyday benefits of living alcohol-free while honouring Frank’s legacy through Be More Frank.
46:25•4 Nov 2024
Be More Frank: Grief, Guts and Going Alcohol-Free with Emma Cleal
Episode Overview
- Alcohol can feel socially prescribed after loss, but Emma questions whether drinking actually helps when “nothing’s going to bring him back.”
- Persistent anxiety, shame spirals and constant planning around drinking were early signs her relationship with alcohol wasn’t working.
- Facing grief without alcohol allowed Emma to process her pain more honestly and avoid adding a new problem on top of an unbearable one.
- Sobriety has made her calmer, kinder to herself and more confident in setting boundaries and respecting her own needs.
- Through Be More Frank, Emma and her community provide financial help and small wishes for families of children with cancer in Frank’s memory.
“How am I going to feel if I get an alcohol-related cancer? I sat there and watched everything that he went through… He didn’t get that chance, and I do.”
What can we learn from those who have battled addiction? This conversation with guest Emma Cleal hits straight at the heart of grief, love and choosing sobriety in the middle of unimaginable pain. Emma shares the story of her son Frank, a sharp, funny, “beautifully annoying” Liverpool-mad teenager who died from cancer at just thirteen.
She talks from his old bedroom, now her office, surrounded by his memorabilia, and explains how, after his death, people repeatedly told her to “drink the wine” to cope. Her response is blunt and brave: “It sort of made me a bit cross at the time. I was like, oh, right. So getting drunk is going to bring him back, is it?” Instead of numbing out, Emma chose to sit with her grief.
She describes the “mental gymnastics” of her old drinking – planning, worrying, asking if she’d been an idiot the night before – and how it stopped being fun long before she quit. A “fairly unremarkable hangover” became the turning point, leading to a year alcohol-free and a calmer, kinder relationship with herself: “I respect me. I like me more.
I trust me more.” Hosts Sharon Hartley and Ben Anderson keep things warm, honest and gently humorous, talking about perimenopause brains, ‘golden 20 minutes’ of drinking and the difference between foundation-level sobriety and chasing huge life changes. Emma, meanwhile, shrugs off any idea of being extraordinary, even as she talks about Be More Frank, the family fund that has raised nearly £200,000 to support families of children with cancer.
This episode will suit anyone who’s questioning their drinking, living with grief, or wondering if alcohol really helps on the hardest days. You’ll come away asking yourself: if life is already painful, why add a hangover on top?
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