How to Live in the Space Between No Longer and Not Yet | Suleika JaouadHow to Live in the Space Between No Longer and Not Yet | Suleika Jaouad
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Suleika Jaouad talks about serious illness, relapse and living in the uncertain space between no longer and not yet. She shares how journaling, creativity, community and small daily rituals help her relate to pain and build a meaningful life in the messy middle.
1:07:27•29 May 2026
Living in the Messy Middle: Suleika Jaouad on Illness, Meaning and the ‘In‑Between’
Episode Overview
- Illness can destroy long‑held plans, but simple practices like daily journaling can create a sense of agency and meaning.
- Physical pain is often unavoidable, but there is some choice in how a person relates to suffering and what they build from it.
- Waiting for life to start "after" recovery keeps people stuck; learning to move forward with illness can open unexpected paths.
- Community and honest, vulnerable friendships are crucial in enduring trauma and feeling less alone in it.
- Small rituals and looking for “something to love” each day can steady a person through uncertainty and ongoing treatment.
“Most of us live large chunks of our lives in the in-between, in that space between no longer and not yet.”
Experience the emotional and inspiring tales of recovery as Suleika Jaouad talks with Eric Zimmer and Ginny about what it means to live "in the space between no longer and not yet". This conversation centres on life when the plan has blown up, the diagnosis has landed, and the future is completely unclear.
Suleika shares how a mysterious itch at 22 led to a brutal diagnosis of acute myeloid leukaemia and four years in what she calls "the kingdom of the sick". She describes the shock of having her carefully crafted one-, five-, and ten-year plans ripped away and being back in her childhood bedroom with "embarrassing pink walls and dusty boy band posters".
Instead of waiting for life to start again, she talks about finding a sliver of agency through a simple daily journal: sometimes a page, sometimes a single swear word. That journal slowly became a way to "make meaning" from her experience rather than waiting for meaning to appear. You’ll hear her unpack the difference she sees between pain and suffering, and why creativity became her way of "suffering on my terms".
She talks about drawing strength from bedridden artists like Frida Kahlo, the pressure of “doing illness the right way”, and why stories of ultra-marathons after cancer once made her want to punch people in the face. The episode also looks at relapse, living with indefinite treatment, and the strange freedom of having the “worst thing” actually happen.
Suleika explains how community, tiny daily rituals, and a practice of looking for “something to love” – even a scrabble game with a nurse – help her live in the messy middle. As she puts it, most of life sits between no longer and not yet; the question is, how do you want to live there?
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