There Is Freedom Here: Matthew Hahn on Recovery, Sangha, and a Life of PracticeThere Is Freedom Here: Matthew Hahn on Recovery, Sangha, and a Life of Practice
BRN Podcast: Buddhist Recovery Network
Conversation with Matthew Hahn about encountering Buddhism in prison, the importance of spiritual friendship, ethics and safety in recovery, and how Recovery Dharma emerged from earlier structures. The discussion highlights how practice and sangha can make real freedom feel possible even in very unsafe environments.
1:15:29•17 Aug 2026
There Is Freedom Here: Matthew Hahn on Shoes Off, Safe Sanghas and Sober Practice
Episode Overview
- Safe, ethical communities let people emotionally "take their shoes off," making deep meditation and honesty in recovery more possible.
- Spiritual friendship works best with both peers and mentors, offering companionship plus strong, honest guidance when needed.
- The five precepts are training tools, not commandments, calming the mind and protecting group safety rather than labelling people as sinful.
- Openness to the "full spectrum of the dharma" can soften rigid views and reveal aspects of practice that once felt too strange or threatening.
- Mindfulness includes remembering how we want to show up, helping us act with kindness and integrity even when fear and old trauma are triggered.
“"If I found freedom there, there is freedom here then. There will always be freedom here."”
What makes a recovery story truly inspiring? This conversation with Buddhist recovery leader Matthew Hahn traces how practice, community and ethics can open up freedom in the unlikeliest places – including a maximum‑security prison.
Host Thomas Tran chats with Matthew about first meeting the Dharma during a seven‑year sentence in Folsom State Prison, where something as simple as a pile of shoes outside a chapel signalled safety in a culture where you "never knew when we'd have to fight." Those early sanghas became places where he was "forgiven before I walked in" and learned to offer the same to others.
From there, you’ll hear how Matthew’s practice has changed over the years: softening from "angry atheist" to someone open to the "full spectrum of the dharma," shaped by mentors like his teacher Matthew Brensilver and lay‑ordination training with Venerable Pannavati and Ashin U Pannadipa. He breaks down Kalyana Mitta as both wise teacher and "Buddha buddy," arguing that recovery really needs peers and mentors – not just one or the other.
For anyone in sobriety, his take on the five precepts is especially useful. Rather than rigid rules, he frames them as trainings that calm the mind and help create groups where people can safely "take their shoes off" emotionally, making meditation less frightening for traumatised nervous systems.
Matthew also shares the inside story of moving from Refuge Recovery to co‑founding Recovery Dharma, why leader worship and profit ties can destabilise peer groups, and how his ongoing work in San Quentin reminds him that "there is freedom here" whenever mindfulness is present – even among gun towers and razor wire.
If you’re curious how Buddhist practice can actually look and feel in messy real life, this conversation might be the nudge you need to seek your own wise friends and safe spaces – where are you ready to start taking your shoes off?
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