Let It Be (With Joe C.)Let It Be (With Joe C.)
Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery
Thom’s Nutshell: Rather than praying for circumstances to change, pray for the strength and wisdom to face those circumstances. “This shouldn’t be happening!” Well, it IS happening. So how do we deal with it? Riffing on Rumi, Paul McCartney, and Kathryn Grody with superfriend Joe Chisholm. Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com Visit our website: www.emotionalsobriety.info Follow us on social media: Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/ Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below): https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986 For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings. We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.
24:52•23 Jun 2026
Let It Be: Emotional Sobriety, Backup Plans and Attaboys with Joe C.
Episode Overview
- Emotional sobriety is framed as always having a backup plan and accepting that "it is happening" rather than insisting it "shouldn’t".
- Prayer is reframed as asking for strength and wisdom to face circumstances, rather than demanding those circumstances change.
- Online ideas about manifesting are contrasted with the recovery question, "Will I be okay even if I don’t get what I want?"
- Validation seeking and the shift from being a "human doing" to a "human being" are discussed as central to self-worth in sobriety.
- Mistakes are described as an intrinsic part of trying new things, with recovery community offering support and reminders when lessons are forgotten.
“Rather than praying for circumstances to change, pray for the strength and wisdom to face those circumstances.”
What drives someone to seek a life that’s emotionally steady instead of constantly chasing control? This conversation on **Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery** brings together Dr. Allen Berger, Thom Rutledge and their "superfriend" Joe C. to talk about how recovery changes once the drama of drinking stops and real life keeps on happening. The chat starts with a funny but familiar scene: microphones breaking, tech going wrong and Patrick scrambling behind the scenes.
Instead of moaning that "this shouldn’t be happening", they treat it as a living example of emotional sobriety — always having a backup plan and learning to say, "It *is* happening, so how do we deal with it?" Gratitude for a "backup yeti" becomes a metaphor for staying grounded when life doesn’t go to plan. You’ll hear Joe and the group wrestle with ideas like prayer, contemplation and manifesting.
Joe shares Tom’s core idea: "Rather than praying for circumstances to change, pray for the strength and wisdom to face those circumstances." They contrast the popular online push to "manifest" your perfect life with the quieter, tougher work of accepting what actually shows up and asking, "Will I be okay even if I don’t get what I want?" Validation, self-worth and that old "human doing vs human being" line also get unpacked.
Joe admits how much he still craves "attaboys", while Allen talks about shifting from proving your value through outcomes to recognising your worth from your own experience. Recovery meetings are described as places of real intimacy and wonder, where you can watch others grow and remember that mistakes are "an intrinsic result of trying new things".
A Rumi poem and a one-woman show by Kathryn Grody round things off, reminding everyone that people have wrestled with these same questions for centuries. If emotional sobriety means "letting it be" instead of forcing life to obey, what might that look like in your own recovery today?
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