Living in the PauseLiving in the Pause
Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery
Thom’s Nutshell: Challenge your low self esteem and surprise yourself (I did). Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), which was developed in the 60’s by Aaron Beck, dovetails nicely with some of Bill W.’s ideas. Rooted in observing, not denying, but recognizing “I’m becoming defensive “, “I’m taking this personally,” etc. Thom, Patrick, and Joe C. talk cognition before reaction and living in the pause. Our music is provided by the great southern artist Jefferson Ross. Learn more about Jefferson at jeffersonross.com Visit our website: www.emotionalsobriety.info Learn more about Joe C., Secular AA and Rebellion Dogs here: https://rebelliondogspublishing.com Follow us on social media: Instagram: thomrutledge2 Joe C. Twitter: @Rebellion_Dogs Friendly Circle Berlin workshops: https://friendlycircleberlin.org/events Allen’s book, 12 Essential Insights for Emotional Sobriety: https://www.amazon.com/12-Essential-Insights-Emotional-Sobriety/dp/1955415129/ Join Allen & Thom at our Thursday night, 7pm PST Zoom meeting on Emotional Sobriety and the Steps (login information below): https://zoom.us/j/330149513 Password: 375986 For our ongoing workshop video series on Emotional Sobriety and the 12 Steps, visit our YouTube channel here: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCHEM2-kqLkfp3I4c0jy-X-g Also, please join our “Emotional Sobriety and Recovery” FB Group at the following link: https://www.facebook.com/groups/120450976662519 We’d love to stay in touch in between meetings. We appreciate feedback! Contact Patrick, our producer, at pndirective4@gmail.com for any questions or comments.
24:35•18 Aug 2026
Living in the Pause: Challenging Low Self-Esteem and Rethinking Success
Episode Overview
- Challenging long-held, self-deprecating beliefs becomes easier when shared with supportive people who recognise the same patterns.
- Pausing to notice thoughts like "I'm becoming defensive" lets you choose a response instead of reacting on autopilot.
- Self-esteem is healthier when based on intention and effort rather than comparison, status, or constant achievement.
- Direct, kind communication—such as asking "Are you angry with me?"—works better than trying to read minds or control others’ reactions.
- "Positive selfishness" means focusing on your own growth in ways that also benefit the people around you.
“"Before the recovery days and the emotional sobriety days, I was in such disharmony with myself… now success is just finding a way to be right with who I am."”
How do people cope with the challenges of staying sober? This conversation from *Emotional Sobriety: The Next Step in Recovery* zooms in on what it means to "live in the pause"—that tiny space between trigger and reaction where emotional sobriety is actually built. Psychotherapists and authors Dr. Allen Berger and Thom Rutledge, joined by Patrick and Joe C., chat about challenging low self-esteem, rethinking success, and learning to respond instead of explode.
Thom starts from his nutshell, **"Challenge your low self-esteem and surprise yourself"**, sharing how he realised his long-standing self-hatred "wasn't doing anything" for him or anyone else. From there, the group connect emotional sobriety with Cognitive Behavioural Therapy (CBT), especially the practice of noticing thoughts like "I'm taking this personally" before they take over.
You'll hear honest stories about impatience, anger, and bureaucracy, including Thom’s months-long battle with Medicare that revealed a surprising new identity: "I think I'm a patient person now." That shift, he explains, came from focusing less on being right and more on how he treats other people day to day.
The chat keeps circling back to a few big themes: self-esteem based on effort and intention rather than comparison, the courage to say "Are you angry with me?" instead of mind-reading, and what Patrick’s wife calls "positive selfishness"—caring for yourself in ways that actually benefit others.
As Thom puts it, "All roads go through the self." The tone is light, funny, and conversational, but the ideas are practical: pause before reacting, turn demands into preferences, and stop measuring yourself only by achievements. If you're working on sobriety and find your emotions still running the show, this episode might make you ask: what could change if you gave yourself just one extra second before you react?
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